Episode 18: “How are childcare companies adapting?”

Elizabeth Romanski (00:00):
Hey guys, it's Elizabeth! Before we get started with today's episode, I just wanted to let you know that I was not able to make it this week. But Anne did a great job with our guest, whose children—in true work from home fashion—you'll be hearing quite a bit in the background.
Elizabeth Romanski (00:25):
You're listening to Raising Curious Learners, a podcast from Britannica for Parents, where we talk to experts and discuss issues and trends in child development, education and parenting.
Ann Gadzikowski (00:47):
Hi everyone! Ann Gadzikowski here. Today I'm hosting our podcast on my own, but we'll catch up with my cohost Elizabeth Romanski on our next episode. On this podcast, we've talked a lot about childcare and how the COVID-19 pandemic has impacted early childhood care and education. And I have so much admiration for the professionals who work in the field of early childhood. I think it's one of the most important yet underappreciated jobs in the world. So our podcast guest today is someone who really understands these challenges. Ron Spreeuwenberg is a champion of early childhood educators. He is the cofounder and CEO of HiMama, a software company with a social purpose that enables childcare, preschool, and early learning programs to realize educational and business leadership. Welcome, Ron!
Ron Spreeuwenberg (01:34):
Thanks for having me.
Ann Gadzikowski (01:35):
Thank you for joining us. I'm so excited to talk to you today. Please tell us about HiMama, about what it is and what you do there.
Ron Spreeuwenberg (01:42):
Yeah. So, HiMama is an app for childcare and early childhood education programs to keep parents in the loop on their children's health and well-being and learning and development while in these childcare and early learning programs. We really like to focus, as well, on empowering the early childhood educators, because as you mentioned, you know, they have a very difficult job that's oftentimes very underrecognized. And so the app is a tool for them to do their job and make it a little bit easier for them and get that recognition that they deserve for all the hard work that they're doing every day.
Ann Gadzikowski (02:18):
So if the parents might have the HiMama app on their phone, and then they can use that to find out how their child is doing while they're in a childcare program, and then it also facilitates conversations and communication between the caregiver and the parent.
Ron Spreeuwenberg (02:32):
Yeah. In times like 2020 with COVID-19, it's really helping, you know, with parents who might have anxiety or stress around dropping their children off in a childcare program with this floating around. From that perspective, you know, providing that sense of safety and knowing things are okay. But then the other thing is where we get, you know, much deeper is really creating a partnership around a child's development. And having that be a partnership between the educator and the parents versus just sort of a one-way street where we're assuming the learning's happening in the classroom, and then they go home and it's over. Of course that's not the case in reality. So the families play a really key role in, in the child's development, of course. And so having that relationship with the educators is something that's really important.
Ann Gadzikowski (03:24):
And you mentioned the stress that a lot of families are feeling right now. I know at a lot of childcare centers, the parents are no longer allowed to come into the classroom and spend time. Some parents, when they have time, they might come in in the morning and sit down and read a story or play a game with the children, and with the health and safety restrictions now, they can't do that or can't do it as often. So an app like HiMama is probably more important than ever.
Ron Spreeuwenberg (03:49):
Yeah, absolutely. Um, you know, it is like you said, like we, you know, even with our, our app, we're supporting things like contactless drop-off and pickup of children and it's really, you know, the centers are trying to almost run it like a fine oiled machine where there's like a five minute window. You've got to drop off your child in that window. You know, they’re using like walkie-talkies and this whole operational process going on. So in that way, you know, it does feel very transactional, and so you're not able to have those conversations with the educators. You know, funny enough we did a study with the University of Guelph here in Canada, and one of the interesting findings from that study was, around this, in that some, sometimes we get the feedback from, early childhood programs that they prefer the face-to-face communication with parents versus using technology. And of course, as you mentioned, when we're trying to social distance, that becomes increasingly difficult. But even in the times of, when things were more normal than they are today, parents are, families are busy. And so, you know, you're moving quickly to drop children off. You've got to get home, you've got to get dinner made and drop off your other child to soccer practice or whatever it is. And the interesting results from that study were that the HiMama app improved the relationship and communications overall between the educator and the parent. And a large part of what was driving that was the parents and the families were receiving a lot of the health and well-being information via the app. So the conversations immediately became more meaningful and deeper conversations, you know, perhaps focusing more on the learning and development activities that were happening on that day. And maybe some of the things that were happening at home and making those connections versus just "What did Emily have for her lunch today? And did she have two servings or one, and like, did she nap for 45 minutes or an hour," sort of thing, because you already know all that because of the app.
Ann Gadzikowski (05:56):
That makes so much—so it frees up the conversation for the things that are really important.
Ron Spreeuwenberg (06:00):
Totally.
Ann Gadzikowski (06:00):
So tell us about your role, how you got started, and your vision for HiMama.
Ron Spreeuwenberg (06:06):
Yeah. So, I'm one of the cofounders of the company and the CEO, my other cofounder, her name's Alana Frome, and she's our chief technology officer. You know, we're really lucky to have Alana leading the charge on the technology side of things. And, for myself, I really, you know, while working with all the leaders in the company, try to set the vision and the culture, you know, for what we do and that's very important for us. As you mentioned in the introduction there, we are a social enterprise. We're a certified B corporation or benefit corporation, which means that, yes, we focus on revenue and profits, but we also focus on, our social impact, and that includes how we treat our employees, how we treat our customers, our contribution to the early childhood education community and the environment. And so we balance all these things. And I think, especially in working in early childhood education, that's a subject I'm very passionate about because those two things must also come together in childcare and early childhood education. You have to make a profit, you have to be, you know, if there's any lesson coming out of the year, you have to be financially sustainable in order to deliver a great education and experience to the children and the families that you're serving. You can't have one without the other. And so I think it's very fitting that we're a certified B corporation and also very passionate about our culture. And so we have three core values. Number one is "Be a good person." So, you know, when you show up to work every day, there's nothing more important than, just treating everybody with respect. That's first and foremost, the second is "Work hard and win." I have a, you know, a passion for, for working hard and, and you know, that doesn't mean working long hours, it means being really focused in our work. We're not shy to say that we want to win. And the reason why is our third core value, which is "Own positive change." And that goes back to us being a social impact business, and my view is the, you know, the larger our scale as an organization and the more people that are using our app to keep educators and parents connected on children's learning and development, the more social impact that we are going to have. That's really what's driving all of our team to come into work excited every day, driven by those core values and by that vision.
Elizabeth Romanski (08:36):
Okay. So it's time for a quick break, but don't go anywhere. We'll be right back.
Ann Gadzikowski (08:50):
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Elizabeth Romanski (09:12):
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Ann Gadzikowski (09:40):
You know, a few years back when apps were kind of new in the childcare arena, I think a lot of people might have said that technology and the care of children don't really go together. Those are two separate things. But I think one of the lessons we've learned during the pandemic is that technology can be a really essential tool for relationships, for connecting people. And I know your background is as an engineer. Can you tell us how you ended up where you are now with those beginnings?
Ron Spreeuwenberg (10:18):
Yeah, for sure. So, you know, during school, I was always really into, I mean, I was into learning generally, but definitely into you know, science, technology, engineering, and math, especially the applied side. So, you know, being more practical, I liked building things, creating things, seeing the output of my results, but I also had some experience working in the field as an engineer. And, you know, as an engineer, I always felt like I didn't have a lot of control and I didn't have a lot of decision-making authority. I was just sort of doing what the business people told me to do. So I was like, okay, I want to be one of those business people who gets to decide what everybody else is doing. That sounds more fun. I also had a roommate in college who had a brother who, you know, had a lot of entrepreneurial ambitions and was always telling me all these cool and exciting stories. So I'm like, okay, I'm going to focus more on this business side. And so I spent some time in business consulting where I learned a lot, but I always still had this sort of entrepreneurial bug, you know, from, from my time at college. And my father had ambitions to start his own business one day and that never came to fruition. And so for me, I wanted to be able to do that and also to create a business that represented the values he observed in life. Commitment to supporting others and open-mindedness, and a sense of civic duty. And that's where the social enterprise and B corporation aspect comes in with HiMama. And so I actually did what I don't recommend to anybody, which is that I quit my job and I didn't have any clue what I was going to do other than I wanted to do something entrepreneurial. And so I just started talking to lots of people to figure out, you know, where should I be spending my time? What should I focus on? And, in a conversation with a friend of mine who had a toddler in a childcare program, he was telling me about his experience with communication and the information he was receiving. And it was lacking, in short. And so he oftentimes wasn't very aware of what was happening. And there's kind of a big disconnect, and this was in 2013, but even then as a young parent, you're used to receiving so much information all throughout the day. You know, you have the news at your fingertips on Twitter and what your friends are doing around the world on Facebook. You can check sports scores, weather, anything you could possibly think of is at your fingertips. And then you drop off your child, your toddler, the most important thing in your life at a childcare program. And for eight hours of the day, you have no idea what's going on. So, for the, you know, for the young parent, this was kind of a weird thing, right?
Ann Gadzikowski (13:00):
Yeah!
Ron Spreeuwenberg (13:00):
So that's where the light bulb went off. And I said, okay, this is an interesting problem to solve. And, I just met with a whole lot of childcare programs. I went and met them in person and I said, "Hey, I'm an aspiring entrepreneur. Wanted to just talk to you about your challenges, your problems, and how I might be able to help." And it was amazing how much folks opened up. And that's when it just really struck me like, a lot of folks in childcare and early childhood education could use support and help in some way, shape, or form. And also, you know, I learned more and more about just how critical learning and development was at that age to everybody's life. And so these two things combined have kind of like, you know, helping the underdog with these childcare programs that really didn't have a lot of support, and also just knowing that, you know, from the science aspect, that learning at that age was so important. I was like, okay, this is something that's really gonna be impactful for me.
Ann Gadzikowski (14:00):
And now you're a dad yourself. Tell us about your children and how being a dad has affected your work.
Ron Spreeuwenberg (14:07):
Yeah! So I I have two boys. Weston's the oldest, he's three years old. He's absolutely obsessed with animals, and he has an awesome sense of humor. Even just yesterday. It was pretty funny. He was watching a—of course—a show about animals and he goes to, to my wife, he says, “Oh, mommy, look, there's an elephant on TV.” And knowing that she really is freaked out by snakes, there was actually a snake.
Ann Gadzikowski (14:39):
Oh no! He was tricking her!
Ron Spreeuwenberg (14:41):
So he was tricking her, which was actually quite funny. And Reid is about one year old. And he's really into cars and trucks. His first word was truck, that's how into cars he is.
Ann Gadzikowski (14:53):
Well, I think I hear some voices, a little voices in the background. Are your children there now?
Ron Spreeuwenberg (15:00):
Probably. Yeah. Yeah. That's them. Who knows what they're doing, but, I'm sure they're having a good time somewhere in my house.
Ann Gadzikowski (15:07):
Well, I suppose that having your own young children probably contributes to your understanding of your work with early childhood educators.
Ron Spreeuwenberg (15:16):
It really does in a couple of ways. One is just being able to really relate to what I'm hearing people say, and just being able to connect that to personal experiences and say, "Oh, I've had that happen to me before. I know exactly what you're talking about." Like, you know, it's impossible to use logic with your three-year-old when they're throwing a tantrum, like you first have to address their feelings and then take the logic. I'm like, "Okay. That totally makes sense!" And the second thing is just an even greater appreciation for how difficult the job is of an early childhood educator. I mean, you know, it's so difficult to look after a couple of young children, let alone, you know, four or six or eight at any one time and also be able to provide a nurturing environment, a stimulating environment, individualized learning and development for those children. What a challenge! You know, I often think of the under investment in early childhood education and all education is important but when you look at the amount of investment that goes into something like a, you know, a K-12 education, when we're talking about literally percentages of GDP that go towards this versus early childhood education, there's a massive disconnect between that level of investment and the impact that education has in a child's life. And also in relation to accessibility. So for lots of children, thousands and thousands, kindergarten, grade one is already far too late for them. We really need to be investing earlier. So, for me, I have even more appreciation just for how amazing all those early childhood educators are that are out there.
Ann Gadzikowski (17:10):
And I know there's a lot that you do at HiMama to advocate for early childhood professionals. And one of your initiatives is a podcast, the Preschool Podcast. Can you tell us about the podcast and who your audience is?
Ron Spreeuwenberg (17:23):
Yeah, we've been doing it for a number of years now. For me, part of why I do it is just to really stay connected with what's happening in early childhood education. You know, at the end of the day, we're a software company, but I feel like part of our responsibility as serving the early childhood community is understanding their challenges and also trying to support them with that. So for us, there's two purposes to the podcast. Number one is sharing of knowledge. So we talk with specialists and experts in early childhood education to share their expertise in the field. And the second is practical tips. So, you know, we love it if somebody is listening to our podcast and they can take their learnings from that into the classroom the next day and apply something that they learned. And so while we sometimes talk to folks that are quite senior in large organizations, for example, we also like to talk to teachers and directors who are on the front lines, so to speak, with children every day, because they bring of course very important knowledge and expertise as well.
Ann Gadzikowski (18:34):
You know, I'm still pretty new to podcasts myself, so this next question is kind of selfish, but do you have any tips or pointers on podcasts, anything surprising or interesting that has happened as you've been recording your podcasts?
Ron Spreeuwenberg (18:47):
Haha! I just find that I, you know, my most memorable experiences in my podcasts are typically when the conversation is as little scripted as possible because we end up going down paths that we didn't anticipate and get deeper in conversations that, you know, myself and the guests are just really passionate about. And so we've had some really great conversations when we kind of go down that path. And in terms of memorable experiences at one - you know, one stands out to me in particular. Every year we do at HiMama, the Early Childhood Educator of the Year Awards. And there's a lot of different reasons for it. One is just because they're doing such great work. And so it's great to have that more public recognition that we don't often see happening for early childhood educators. It's a way for us all, as an early childhood community to showcase to the world, all the amazing work that early childhood educators are doing. And so in 2020, the winner of the early childhood educator of the year awards, Nery Payne joined us as a podcast guest. She had moved to Canada from Colombia. And the reason why she moved was because her son was actually kidnapped in Colombia, and it was a very traumatic experience and he ended up getting home and physically was okay, but sort of like emotionally was really struggling with that experience to the point where he didn't feel comfortable or safe in Colombia. So they moved to Canada, and because of what Canada gave her and her son she wanted to give back. And so she started her own childcare program and because she had such a passionate "why" behind why she was doing it, she's the most phenomenal educator and her parents are absolutely in love with her and the kids she serves. And she just goes really above and beyond. And that story just really hit home for me because it's such a perfect example of somebody who's doing such amazing things. There's probably only maybe the five families she serves that I'm sure give her lots of love and recognition, but we would love to amplify that and showcase, you know, to everyone, the amazing work that this one lady is doing in her small childcare program and the impact that you have even on one child can make such a difference. So, that was just a story that really resonated with me.
Ann Gadzikowski (21:15):
Wow. She sounds like an amazing educator. And the truth be told, there are so many amazing educators—maybe not with as compelling a story, but certainly with their heart deeply invested in the work that they do. I think we're all hopeful for the future that there will be more opportunities for recognition. What do you see looking towards the future right now, especially in this unusual year that we're all living together. What's the future for early care and education look like from your perspective?
Ron Spreeuwenberg (21:45):
Yeah, to your point about technology, you know, we're certainly seeing an increased adoption rate of technology and folks embracing technology. I think as the CEO of a software company, that's obviously something I want to talk about, but for me, the conversation I really try to focus on with technology is not to think about technology in terms of the technology itself, but what is the value being provided by the technology? What is the technology enabling? So for example, HiMama is a technology, but what is it enabling? It's enabling a better quality of education for the children. It's empowering educators with tools and a channel and a medium for them to receive positive recognition from parents. It's improving customer satisfaction for the families by providing them with this service. So think of it more in terms of the value prop. So that's been positive. The other things that I guess are maybe more things I would like to see and are starting to see early signs of, one is increased education in the workforce. This goes with, you know, obviously more investment in early childhood education, but I think there could be more research in early childhood education and also more focus on how we're applying that research in the classroom. And I think with a more educated workforce that will help enable that. And I think step one of that is recognizing how challenging early childhood education is—arguably even more so than some of those older school age programs where, you know, there is a little bit more of a set curriculum and a set plan. Early childhood education is very complex. The other thing I would say is in terms of the education side is individualization. So, you know, the more and more that we can provide an individual learning and development experience for the children in the programs. That's I think what every early childhood educator wants. The challenge is how do you do that in an environment where you have multiple children that are all unique in different ways? And so that's where I'm hoping we, you know, some of the research can help advance the individualization of learning programs for young children.
Ann Gadzikowski (24:06):
So you talked about investment, greater investment in early care and education, especially as compared to the older grades. You talked about the importance of technology, the individualization, the research and information that we get when we individualize and can use that to make good decisions. And then the training and the professional development of the educators who are working with young children. Those are all such crucial core initiatives that are so important. And I'm just curious, I know that you're based in Canada, but the extent of your work is much broader. Do you have any thoughts or comments on how different countries or different governments are addressing these issues and maybe some positive lessons learned that we can all look at?
Ron Spreeuwenberg (24:50):
There's definitely a lot of different models out there. And I think the most important thing for governments to recognize is that every childcare and early learning program that's out there is adding value and is passionate about what they're doing. And on the one hand, we have some countries that are heavily supported by the government. So in particular, for example, in Scandinavian countries, you know, there's a lot of support for early childhood education, which is wonderful. In the United States of America, it's a larger percentage of childcare and early learning programs are privately owned. You know, as a lot of your listeners likely know there's a Head Start program, which is federally funded. In Canada, a lot of the publicly funded childcare programs are at the municipal level or supported by the provincial government. And so I think where things get complicated is that you have hardworking entrepreneurs out there who are most times early childhood educators themselves and are passionate about supporting children's education. If governments just subsidize and support, not-for-profit childcare programs, then they will be provided with an unfair advantage. And so I guess my takeaway in terms of how I think about it–one is we want more investment from government in early childhood education. And two, we want them to be thoughtful about how they implement, and that's oftentimes where we've seen governments make the mistake is with best intentions, they implement something and it has negative impact. So for example, in Ontario, the province where we are in Canada, the government provided free kindergarten programs, which previously was not the case. And so all the private childcare programs that were offering kindergarten before sort of like overnight ended up losing all of that income and that revenue. And it was very challenging for them. And a lot of them weren't able to make it through that transition. So I think just being more thoughtful about that side is also quite important.
Ann Gadzikowski (26:59):
Yeah, we saw something similar here in the Chicago area, in the move toward universal preschool as well. So these are big issues. These are complicated issues. As we wrap up, I'm wondering if you have any final thoughts for parents who are listening to our podcast, just in terms of making the best of the resources and the situation that we have right now, any words of wisdom to share with us?
Ron Spreeuwenberg (27:24):
Yeah... I mean, the big thing to just to say is everybody is struggling right now, and it's okay to be struggling. It's a tough year. It's a tough time. And I think it's really important that you figure out ways to take time for yourself to, you know, refill your energy buckets in whatever way you get energy, whether that's exercising, reading, for everybody it's different. Someone was telling me the other day, they just get a lot of energy when they pull weeds. So they take a five minute break and they go outside, and they pull weeds! And it's kind of funny. I was thinking I've got some things like that too. Some weird things where I just like, I don't know if I take out the garbage, I feel really like I have a lot more energy, so, it's tough. So look after your mental health and your well-being, because, you know, we've heard on the Preschool Podcast, a number of times the analogy to the oxygen masks in the plane where, you know, there's a reason why they tell you to put the oxygen mask on yourself first, before helping the young children around you. Because you have to look after yourself before you can look after others. And that goes for both parents and early childhood educators.
Ann Gadzikowski (28:36):
So true. Well Ron, thank you so much for visiting our podcast today. It's been such a pleasure speaking with you and hearing about the important work that you're doing.
Ron Spreeuwenberg (28:45):
Thanks for having me! It's been a blast.
Elizabeth Romanski (28:50):
Thanks for tuning in to this episode of Raising Curious Learners. Special thanks to our guest this week, Ron Spreeuwenberg, cofounder and CEO of HiMama, for telling us a little bit about the way that HiMama is building successful and productive relationships between parents and educators. You can find out more about HiMama at www.himama.com. Ron is the host of a weekly podcast series, the Preschool Podcast, where he interviews current leaders, experts, and specialists in early childhood education, and you can find that anywhere you stream your podcasts. I'm Elizabeth Romanski and my cohost, as always, is Ann Gadzikowski. Our audio engineer and editor for this program is Emily Goldstein. If you like this episode, make sure to subscribe on Apple Podcasts, leave us a review, and share with your friends.
Elizabeth Romanski (29:44):
This episode is copyrighted by Encyclopaedia Britannica Incorporated. All rights reserved.
Ann Gadzikowski (29:55):
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